Russia
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mid.ru Dear friends,
I am delighted to attend the Eastern Economic Forum again. I have visited all its 11 editions and believe that with every passing year the forum is not only increasing its attendance but is also increasing the scope of issues for discussions. The issue of young people is especially relevant now.
Eurasia is our common continent, the most rapidly growing, the richest and the most densely populated continent that is distinguished from the other continents by the fact that it is home to several great civilisations, which have maintained their identity throughout thousands of years. One of them is our multinational Russian civilisation, which stands side by side with the Indian, Chinese, Ottoman, Persian and a number of other civilisations.
That is why young people, who are showing a growing interest in interacting with their Eurasian neighbours while remaining open to communication with their peers on other continents, should absorb this history. It is very difficult to preserve one’s national identity without feeling part of what our ancestors did, what they protected and lived for. And while preserving this identity, it is important to remain open to the entire world.
This has been a distinguishing feature of our country, our people and our leaders throughout history, including before the establishment of the Russian Empire, during and after the reign of Peter the Great, during the Soviet period, and in modern Russia.
The Eastern Economic Forum is a successful platform. It attracts guests from widely different countries. The leaders of India, China, Malaysia, Mongolia and Myanmar have attended it. The leaders of Vietnam, Kazakhstan, Laos and Thailand have visited it in various capacities. In the past, when the West maintained normal relations with our country, the forum was visited by the leaders of those countries that now have unfriendly governments, such as Japan and South Korea.
The business segment of the Eastern Economic Forum has long gone far beyond the geographical boundaries of Eurasia. Its frequent guests include businesspeople from South America, Africa and the Middle East.
Of course, we remain open to contacts with everyone who sincerely wants to set aside misguided ideologies and distorted politics, instead focusing on natural interests, primarily in the economic and social spheres. We have never shut our door, but we don’t want to be placed in a situation where we will depend on the “goodwill” of our so-called former Western partners.
We are developing our multilateral cooperation on the Eurasian continent through venues and platforms that are based on the principles of equality, mutual benefit and honest dialogue, which are entirely different from those of Western-oriented structures. These platforms include the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (which held a regular summit in Bishkek, the capital of Kyrgyzstan, the other day), the Eurasian Economic Union and ASEAN. They have signed memorandums of cooperation at the level of their general secretaries, emphasising their desire to harmonise their economic and social development, trade and investment programmes in order to avoid overlapping and to more effectively use the potential of these organisations.
We maintain contacts with such organisations as the Asia Cooperation Dialogue. There is also BRICS, which is broader than Eurasia but has the leading states of our continent among its members. The Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the Pacific (ESCAP) is becoming involved in the processes which we are doing our best to stimulate within the Eastern Economic Forum.
This cross-platform cooperation between these structures is developing, growing deeper and creating a new agenda. It is objectively beneficial to all those who are engaged in these processes and constitutes the essence of what President Vladimir Putin described as Greater Eurasian Partnership more than ten years ago. He did not present it as an initiative but as principles for shaping this partnership.
This initiative has been enshrined in Russia’s Foreign Policy Concept, which was approved in March 2023. It provides for shaping a partnership based on the coincidence of economic and development interests open to every single country in Eurasia, the largest continent on the planet.
For a long time, the use of the advantages of the world’s largest and richest continent, given by God and geography, has been hindered by the policy which the West pursued and continues to pursue. The West is carrying it out even more fiercely, if not frantically now, seeking to divide our continent. You probably know that they are physically building walls along the border between the European Union and the Russian Federation and digging ditches that are a hundred metres wide (I don’t know how deep) to prevent Russia from “conquering” them.
That is a sick imagination. Moreover, I think that this is not so much a sick imagination as a deliberate policy. They – NATO and the EU – always need an enemy. Without an artificially created image of Russia as the enemy, people would get rid of their governments in the overwhelming majority of EU and NATO countries.
Our position is the exact opposite. We believe that the use and development of wealth given to our continent by God and geography should be open to all nations living here. Even if we approach this issue purely pragmatically, this will at least cut costs.
We are not building walls; we don’t want to isolate ourselves from Europe. But Europe has isolated itself from us. It has decided that our past cooperation was so important for the Russian Federation that we would plead and beg them to forgive, forget, go back, and lift sanctions. We won’t do this. It is against the genetic code of our people. e have, if you like, a pride of our own in the best sense of the word. We don’t need anybody’s goodwill. We have enough friends and partners who are ready to play fair.
Europe is not ready to cooperate in earnest, nor does it know how to do it. For more than five hundred years, Europe has been the main source of many troubles and misfortunes that have afflicted humanity. It was where two world wars began, and it is also the source of the current situation, in which it has simply stifled itself with the sheer volume of sanctions and illegal restrictions it has imposed in an attempt to defend what it considers its right to hegemony in global affairs.
Europe has never lived by its own resources or its own wits. It has always lived at the expense of others, both during the era of colonial rule and the era of slavery. Now, these unprecedented sanctions have been imposed simply because Russia is defending the interests of its people, who, in our view, have been oppressed by the Nazi regime in Ukraine. The sanctions imposed on states that cooperate with or even simply trade with Russia demonstrate that this neo-imperial, colonial – I would even say neo-Nazi – spirit remains deeply entrenched in Europe.
I have already mentioned in several of my speeches that I was simply stunned by the resurgence of Nazism in Germany. But when German Chancellor Friedrich Merz declared that he would once again make Germany the leading military power in Europe, I was genuinely shocked. Because if he does not understand what the word “again” means in this context, then it is indeed very sad and extremely dangerous for Europe, which is once again becoming a breeding ground for ideas of national and racial superiority.
As I have already said, we are choosing a different path. I have listed the organisations with which we cooperate: the SCO, the EAEU, ASEAN, the Asia Cooperation Dialogue, and several others. One of the fundamental formats for interaction in these global spaces has always been the ASEAN Plus partners format. Russia, along with a dozen other states, is a strategic partner of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations.
Every year, ASEAN brings its partners together for a summit. The ASEAN Ten –now eleven, following the admission of Timor-Leste – plus ten partner countries make up the East Asia Summit. This format is open to other states wishing to join, and applications can be submitted at any time. The East Asia Summit is based on what are now commonly referred to as universal principles of inclusiveness. In other words, all participants have equal rights. The mechanism is open to countries that uphold the principles and values promoted at these summits.
The West dislikes structures where it has to be part of a consensus. This is increasingly characteristic of the West, and particularly of Europe: the Anglo-Saxons – primarily the British, but also the Americans, including the current administration – are increasingly driven by the desire to continue dictating their will. These neo-colonialist tendencies are very tenacious.
Now, all Western diplomacy boils down to... Diplomacy is about reaching an agreement. I have already said that it is the oldest profession. Even in what was once considered the oldest profession, an agreement had to be reached first. Therefore, diplomacy is the oldest profession. I ask everyone to keep this in mind. However, the West seeks to dictate rather than reach an agreement. For them, diplomacy has now been supplanted by sanctions. From the perspective of our Western colleagues, sanctions are immediately imposed on anyone who “does something wrong”: primary, secondary, tertiary sanctions, and whatever comes next.
The West dislikes the consensual nature of the processes that have been evolving around ASEAN for many years. The Bali Treaty – the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation in Southeast Asia, which laid the foundation for ASEAN cooperation – was signed in the mid-1970s. Since then, the Association has continued to develop. Yes, it has been a slow process – you know where haste is necessary, but building consensus takes time. It can take months or even years. But a consensus reached through such lengthy efforts is far more reliable and durable than a hastily imposed ultimatum. This, I believe, is clear to everyone.
Now the West seeks to dismantle the inclusive format that has developed around ASEAN, undermine its central role, and undermine the principles upon which the Association builds cooperation with its partners: consensus, mutual respect, and mutual benefit.
To achieve this, various bloc-based “trios” and “quartets” are being created. There is AUKUS: the United States, Britain, and Australia. This group aims to implement a nuclear-powered submarine programme for Australia using American and British technology. However, the activities of this nuclear “trio” do not fully comply with the standards and norms established for all countries within the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) framework. We are carefully examining this matter because failure to comply with, or partial compliance with, IAEA standards carries a risk of the proliferation of military nuclear technology. Unfortunately, the organisation’s current leadership seems to be taking this matter very lightly, clearly under severe pressure from the United States and Britain.
Blocs of four, or so-called “quartets,” are also being created. There is the QUAD format, or Quadrilateral Security Dialogue: the United States, Japan, Australia, and India. Our Indian friends are very uncomfortable within this format. They joined it solely because they saw the potential for additional economic opportunities. But as soon as they joined, the Americans and Japanese immediately began doing everything possible to imbue this positive economic “quartet” with a military component. They organise, or attempt to organise, maritime security exercises and are keen to draw our Indian friends, our closest partners, into games directed against another of our great friends, the People’s Republic of China.
Attempts are being made to establish a second QUAD, with the Philippines supplanting India in this so-called “quartet,” with the manifest intention of fracturing ASEAN unity. There also exists an Indo-Pacific Four – Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, and Australia. Furthermore, efforts are underway to devise numerous other configurations of restricted membership and bloc orientation. Additionally, NATO is actively advancing into this region, intent on embedding its infrastructure here.
Several years ago, the then NATO Secretary-General, Jens Stoltenberg, was queried at a news conference regarding NATO’s designs on Southeast and Northeast Asia. After all, the Washington Treaty, which established the North Atlantic Alliance, stipulates that the bloc’s principal objective is the defence of its member states’ territories. What, therefore, is the relevance of the eastern extremity of the Eurasian continent and its territories to this mandate? Without the slightest hesitation, he asserted that the bloc’s purpose – the defence of member territories – remained unchanged, but that contemporary threats to those territories now emanate from the Taiwan Strait, from Southeast Asia at large, and so forth. This is merely a pretext.
NATO is desperately seeking new rationales to prolong its now thoroughly artificial existence. This organisation ought to have dissolved itself, as the Warsaw Pact did, following the collapse of the Soviet Union. It did not. Initially, NATO found a justification for maintaining this military bloc in the events in Afghanistan. Subsequently, when that episode ended in disaster for NATO – it fled ignominiously – the “Russian threat” was conjured up to supplant the former Soviet threat.
Yet it is not only NATO that seeks to entrench its architecture in the region. Now, the concept of an Indo-Pacific Treaty organisation has been put forward. There is, in fact, a bill before the US Congress, which has lain dormant for several months, but which nevertheless provides for the establishment of such a body. In essence, this would amount to a replication of NATO’s ideology and mindset in the very region where we now find ourselves.
I have already mentioned the dangers associated with the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. The triangle comprising the United States, Japan, and South Korea has been intensifying its military collaboration and conducting joint exercises. Admittedly, US President Donald Trump recently cancelled, or at least drastically reduced, his plans for military exercises with these countries. Nevertheless, the overarching trend is unambiguous: military interaction within the US–Tokyo–Seoul triangle is being reinforced. Moreover, the South Koreans, and more recently the Japanese under Prime Minister Sanae Takaichi, have demonstrated an increasing interest in ensuring that this military cooperation acquires nuclear components, which likewise exacerbates the threat and risk of proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.
Therefore, I reiterate: our open policy, which is shared by the majority of countries in this region – the policy of establishing universal mechanisms for collaboration and fostering linkages among these mechanisms – the SCO, the EAEU, ASEAN, and other structures, including, incidentally, the GCC (which has also been invited to participate in these linkages) – this open and sincere approach is being countered by a strategy aimed at creating closed blocs of an overtly aggressive character. It is not concealed that all these “troikas” and “quartets” pursue, as their primary objective, the undermining of ASEAN’s central role, seeking to supplant this positive, central function with these bloc-based concepts.
The strategic goal – the containment of the People’s Republic of China – is not concealed either. And, simultaneously, the containment of Russia. It is believed by the Americans and their allies that the main task in this region is to diminish China’s influence – and ours as well, as we are the closest strategic partner of the People’s Republic of China.
The situation on the Korean Peninsula also plays a substantial role, where, despite the many twists and turns demonstrated by US President Donald Trump in relation to the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (he recently declared that he enjoys very good relations with Kim Jong-un, that they are friends, and that they are prepared to meet and engage; God willing, should they succeed in easing tensions), the core of the US strategic line there remains, of course, the containment of the DPRK.
Thus, this region presents the West with an array of tasks from the perspective of preserving its dominance. This is no secret. All those who develop with relative independence (I am not referring solely to China, Russia, or the DPRK), who, in spite of pressure, do not renounce maintaining trade, economic, cultural, and educational ties with the Russian Federation – all of them are subject to the pressure which the West exerts on them, based on its philosophy of dominance. For this reason, the region is of considerable interest.
I have heard that many of you aspire to pursue careers in fields related, in one way or another, to foreign policy. I can say candidly: you will not be short of work.
Everything we are now discussing represents long-term trends that must be considered in the context of what we term the formation of a multipolar or polycentric world. The West, which for five centuries controlled global development with varying degrees of success, is now confronted with the objective trend towards the emergence of new centres of economic growth, financial power, political authority, including military influence.
China stands as the foremost example. Then there are India and Brazil. Russia has always been counted among the independent actors on the global stage, save for a brief period following the dissolution of the Soviet Union until the early 2000s. Thankfully, that period is long past. To resist this multipolarity is to resist a force that cannot be stopped. Moreover, China is advancing at a pace that has long been unattainable for the West.
The same applies to India and many others.
Africa is now awakening for the second time. Whereas in the 1960s Africa attained political independence and spent decades taking pride in having cast off the yoke of colonialism, it now realises that, though it has liberated itself politically, it remains economically dependent on its former metropoles. Africa’s economy is, to a large extent, founded on the scheme imposed by the departing colonisers, whereby raw materials are extracted from Africa, while all added value is generated in the metropoles.
I cited this example at the second Russia-Africa Summit in 2023. President of Uganda Yoweri Museveni noted that the global coffee market, for example, is valued at some 450 billion euros, of which only 25 billion remains in Africa, while the remainder is realised in Germany and other Western countries, where it is ground, packaged, and distributed via retail networks.
Africa now seeks to ensure that its natural wealth is processed into final goods demanded by the market, not somewhere far from the continent, but precisely in the countries where these resources are extracted.
Thus, these processes are of considerable interest. On our side lies the objective, organic course of history; on the West’s side is the attempt to subvert this natural progression, to reverse it, to halt it. This is impossible. These are mere fantasies – they are not destined to materialise – yet the efforts being made by the West in this direction will, of course, impede the universalisation of the world order.
I will, perhaps, pause here. I stand ready to answer your questions further. Thank you.
Question: Thank you very much. Mr Lavrov, I would like to thank you once again for being here with us today.
Sergey Lavrov: You haven’t thanked me yet.
Question: No, I have thanked you many times, as well as the entire audience, because, to be honest, we have been looking forward to meeting with you.
Sergey Lavrov: Thank you.
Question: Let me ask the first question, and then we will move into the audience. Today, Russia is actively developing relations with India and China. You have just spoken about this. Could you please tell us how this cooperation is being implemented in practice, and what areas are currently the most important for us?
Sergey Lavrov: You already told me about this matter during the preparation for this event. You know, statistics is not something you can keep in your head. That is why I asked for a written response to this question – simply to have a comprehensive overview of our relations with India and China. You should have the relevant materials on hand.
If we are talking about live communication rather than simply providing statistical data, then, of course, these are our two leading partners. We have a relationship of strategic partnership and comprehensive cooperation with China. Russian President Vladimir Putin and Chinese President Xi Jinping maintain regular contact. Just a few days ago, they held another meeting – there have been many of them, around 50 in total – on the sidelines of the SCO summit in Bishkek they reaffirmed the strategic course toward comprehensive deepening of our partnership and confirmed that, for the fifth consecutive year, trade has exceeded $200 billion. The growth in trade this year suggests that $250 billion is by no means the limit.
We are seeing similar trends in our relations with India. Our trade, which just a few years ago was slightly above $10 billion, has now confidently approached the $60 billion mark. This upward trend is continuing.
We have intergovernmental commissions on trade and economic cooperation both with China and India. With China, we have as many as five. In addition to these five sectoral commissions dealing with investment, trade, and social ties, there is a mechanism for annual meetings between the heads of government, who receive reports from these five sectoral bodies. So, this is a comprehensive system covering virtually all areas of cooperation and going well beyond the economy and investment.
We have numerous plans with both China and India. Let me highlight nuclear energy. In China, in addition to the units already built by Rosatom, further capacities are currently being planned. Similar processes are underway with India. There are specific plans to build additional nuclear power plants both in India and beyond. The first such example is Bangladesh, where we are working with our Indian friends to build a nuclear power plant. This was also discussed at recent meetings with our Indian colleagues. A couple of weeks ago, Indian Foreign Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, who co-chairs the intergovernmental commission, visited us in Moscow. He co-chaired a meeting of the commission together with our First Deputy Prime Minister Denis Manturov. I also met with him, and we discussed foreign policy cooperation.
Of course, cultural and educational contacts with both our Chinese and Indian friends are of great importance: festivals, the Russian Seasons, the number of students at our universities – many thousands come from both China and India –and sporting events. We recently participated in the Games of the Future, which our government officials call “phygital,” that is, a combination of physical and digital competition. A team first plays a computer football match and then plays futsal with the same lineup, scoring goals with their feet and heads. We hosted the Games in 2024 and 2025, the second Games of the Future took place in the UAE, and this year they are held in Kazakhstan. I know that our Chinese friends are interested in hosting one of the future Games in their country.
So, there are many plans, and I will not further elaborate on our diplomatic cooperation. Both China and India share our approaches on foreign policy matters, and we share theirs on the vast majority of issues on the international agenda.
I will conclude by noting that Yevgeny Primakov, my great predecessor, launched a format called RIC – Russia, India, China – back in 1998, when he moved from the position of Foreign Minister to that of Prime Minister. Since then, this group of three has met regularly, both at the level of foreign ministers and at the level of sectoral ministries dealing with practical areas of cooperation: the economy, trade, investment, culture, and so on. There was a pause following the outbreak of the COVID-19 pandemic, but we are now working to restore this format. It functioned quite regularly, without interruption, from 1998 onward, with the exception of this COVID pause.
This group, RIC, served as the core of what is now known as BRICS. Brazil then joined the trio, so RIC became BRIC, and later South Africa joined, adding the “S” to form BRICS. Then, when the number of BRICS members doubled, we decided not to change the acronym. BRICS sounds like bricks, which is good. Bricks are a symbol of creation.
The role of this trio, regardless of what grew out of it and became BRICS, remains the same. Our Chinese and Indian colleagues confirm that they want to preserve this trilateral format of cooperation.
So, that is it, in short. But I repeat: you have additional material on hand.
Question: Yes, we do. We have distributed it to everyone. Thank you very much.
Today, Russia is talking about creating a new security system in Eurasia, where every single country on the continent will be able to participate. You have repeatedly emphasised that NATO, the EU, and the OSCE are becoming a thing of the past. What will this mean for ordinary people? When will we be able to experience this firsthand and realise that something has changed?
Sergey Lavrov: If the initiative put forward by Russian President Vladimir Putin on Eurasian security is implemented, it will give ordinary people a sense of calm, security, and comfort. It will allow them to go about their daily lives without being distracted by violence or having to fear becoming the target of the frenzied policies of Western countries that seek to punish everyone and everything simply because those who are punished do not obey Western demands. We are seeing this, for instance, in the case of Ukraine. The situation has reached such a level of absurdity that I hardly know how to speak about it.
Take the latest example: in Leipzig, Germany, a drone crashed at the airport, and they decided that it resembles drones used by the Russian Federation, although they cannot confirm this as a definitive conclusion. On the basis of this assumption, this supposition, this conjecture, they officially decided to close our last remaining Consulate General in Bonn, as well as the Russian House – our Russian cultural centre in Berlin, which has long been a symbol of our relations with post-war Germany. They decided to close these institutions and expel the people who worked there. Admittedly, they said they were “in no hurry,” but these diplomats and employees of our cultural centre are nevertheless expected to leave.
Even from their own perspective, if they seek to maintain relations and exert influence – and they certainly do – then they, Germans, have branches of the Goethe Institute operating in Moscow, St Petersburg, and Novosibirsk. Obviously, those will be closed once our cultural centre is closed. Otherwise, we would not be respecting ourselves.
In other words, they are deliberately taking a step (and they could not fail to understand it) that clearly means the end of their cultural presence in the Russian Federation, a presence that had survived despite all the upheavals in our relations with the West over Ukraine. Let me explain why. I believe they understood that they would have fewer, if any, direct opportunities to engage with our population through the Goethe Institute branches. They have made a final choice in favour of influencing our people not through open, honest cultural and humanitarian ties, but by indoctrinating our “fugitives,” to use Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko’s description of those who left his country. Many of them have already been designated as foreign agents, but I am referring specifically to those who did not simply flee Russia because they disagreed with our efforts to defend Russians in Ukraine from the Nazi regime, but who fled in order to continue their subversive activities from abroad.
The fact that the Germans have decided to take the steps I have mentioned means only one thing: instead of maintaining open contacts for culture and ideas to be exchanged, they have chosen to support these fugitive agents of influence. Just like Belarusians abroad create temporary governments in exile, our aggressive émigrés are also creating similar structures. So they have decided to exert their influence through these structures. Unfortunately, this once again demonstrates (as I have already mentioned in connection with Friedrich Merz’s statement) that Germany is attempting to once again “subjugate” everyone else and suppress any tendency toward normal relations with Russia that still exists in some EU countries – only a few, but nevertheless.
Therefore, it appears to me that the European Union has now ceased to be the economic association that, some 20 years ago, everyone aspired to join – seeking to derive benefits, to obtain subsidies from the central EU budget (as practised by countries whose level of development is lower than that of the founders of the European Union), to secure grants, and to enjoy a single area without restrictions on the movement of people, capital, and services. Undoubtedly, all these factors confer advantages.
However, first and foremost, these advantages are now being gravely eroded. One needs only observe the migrant crisis, which has arisen as a direct consequence of a policy not merely of open doors, but of wide-open gates: “whoever wishes, may enter.” Perhaps, at one stage, this did reflect the love of humanity professed by the European Union. Now, in a number of countries, including Germany and Britain (which, too, was once an EU member), the population of migrant origin is becoming the majority, and in demographic terms at that.
Look at those who currently hold the offices of Mayor of London, of Glasgow in Scotland, and the many politicians across European countries – they, too, are, so to speak, “of non-native origin.” Perhaps there is nothing particularly shameful in this, save for one critical issue: the predominance of newcomers is fast becoming a challenge to internal development and is provoking the discontent of the indigenous population, which is compelled to pay taxes in order to support newly arrived citizens.
Ukrainian citizens fall within this same category: from the very outset of the special military operation, as they fled en masse their country, they have been provided with subsidies and benefits in European Union countries which, in a number of instances, significantly surpass the unemployment benefits payable in those same states to their own citizens. This, in turn, provokes internal protests and discontent, and devalues the economic fundamentals of the European Union. In addition to this objective factor, there are also numerous other economic challenges, not least those relating to energy prices.
The President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen – whom we refer to as “Führer Ursula” – is endeavouring to appropriate for the European Commission those competences and powers which, by decisions of the entire European Union, were not transferred to Brussels, but remain with national governments. This tendency is becoming increasingly pronounced. Several years ago, when we commenced the special military operation, in response to the question “what is to be done – the Nord Stream pipelines and Russian gas have been blown up,” she remarked that their electorates would suffer because energy prices would rise considerably, but that they were obliged to endure this so that the Ukrainian people might uphold their “European values.”
No one questioned her on what these “European values” actually are. If the legislative prohibition of the Russian language in education, culture, daily life, and the media reflects European values, then Europe is welcome to revert to Nazism. The ban on the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church likewise aligns with “European values.” When President Vladimir Putin and I visited Alaska just over a year ago – on August 15, 2025 – he was explaining to President of the United States Donald Trump what the Nazi regime of Vladimir Zelensky represents. When he mentioned the ban on the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Donald Trump simply did not believe him. He quite literally started in astonishment and began questioning US Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who was also present at that meeting, as to whether it was indeed true that a religion had been banned. Rubio replied that yes, regrettably, it had. The President of the United States clicked his tongue; but not a single signal (incidentally, this is a small parenthetical remark) has ever been sent to the Kiev regime by Washington, or by anyone else – absolutely no one – to the effect that the Russian language must be restored, or that obstacles must not be created for the canonical church.
Whenever we raise these issues with our Western colleagues, including the Americans, and enquire how they can support those who are engaged in blatantly racist, Nazi activities, they respond that there will be negotiations and that all such matters will be included on the agenda. That is incorrect. Some matters cannot be made subject to conditions. The rights to language and religion are among such matters.
Article 1 of the UN Charter encourages respect for human rights without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion. Moreover, not only the UN Charter but also the Constitution of Ukraine says that the state guarantees the rights of the Russian and other national minorities. But nobody takes this into account. They have adopted numerous laws that contradict the UN Charter, the Constitution, and everyone says that this is in full conformity with “European values.”
In other words, this is what I regard as the Werst’s absolutely abhorrent and untenable position. It is no coincidence that when speaking about Ukraine, all that European group of individuals (I must be polite) does nothing but demand more sanctions against Russia in order to “strangle” Russia, inflict a “strategic defeat” on it, and save Zelensky because “Ukrainians are dying for Europeans.” If this is yet another wave of the revival of Nazism in Europe, which is the only conclusion I have, then we’ve gotten into a fine mess, regrettably.
What is the West doing now? Sorry for switching to the subject of Ukraine, but it is directly connected to NATO and the European Union. President Putin has clearly put forth our views on a settlement. In his address at the Foreign Ministry in June 2024, he enumerated the tasks of the special military operation: demilitarisation of the regime, denazification of Ukraine, and, of course, the reunification with our historical territories, which were incorporated, by a twist of fate and the decisions of Nikita Khrushchev and his predecessors, into the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic rather than the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic. It was done to dilute the pro-Western sentiments of the western regions of Ukraine, which were incorporated into the Soviet Union after WWII, with normal Russian regions.
Regrettably, these pro-Western regions ultimately got their hooks into the whole of Ukraine, the republic that was part of the Soviet Union and ceded from it after its collapse. The neo-Nazis and radicals took it over, regardless of who ran in these elections.
Donald Trump calls for taking realities on the ground into account. We regard this as the fundamental difference from the position of Europe, which demands returning to the 1991 borders. Imagine that! Regardless of whether they like us or not, no realistic politician would say that the Ukraine problem can be resolved by returning to the 1991 borders.
I would say that we recognised that Ukraine, but we did so on the basis of its Declaration of Independence, which still says that Ukraine will be an independent, neutral, non-aligned and nuclear-free power. All these principles have been erased. Vladimir Zelensky publicly complained that Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons back then. Non-alignment is long forgotten too. They demand admission to NATO.
Donald Trump has said they should forget about NATO, that it is impossible, that the Russians said a thousand times before President Putin that this is unacceptable. But NATO officials, including Secretary General Mark Rutte, don’t care about what the US President says. They claim that Ukraine is a natural member of NATO, not now, but definitely in the future.
In other words, the principles on the basis of which we and everyone else recognised Ukraine’s independence have long been trashed. Nevertheless, the West is defending Ukraine as a country that is upholding “European values.” Returning to your question, that is why the EU has economically shot itself in the foot, in the head and in other parts of the body by rejecting Russian energy carriers and exploding the Nord Stream pipelines. Turning a blind eye to that terrorist attack, which has caused colossal economic and financial damage to Germany as the driver of European development and to other countries, can only be described as self-humiliation.
Today, they pay 800 euros for a thousand cubic metres of gas (I recently looked up the exchange market price of LNG and pipeline gas). They bought our gas for a third of that, or even less under long-term contracts. And yet they continue to say that they must suffer for Ukraine. How can a sensible person (regional elections will be held in Germany in three days) vote for the leaders who urge them to suffer, and not even for a progressive regime that is being unfairly discriminated against, but for an openly Nazi government of Vladimir Zelensky?
In short, the EU is squandering its economic advantages actively and of its own accord. Enterprises are fleeing from Europe to the United States, where energy prices are three to four times lower because the Americans are smart people, unlike their European allies. And taxes are lower there too. The Trump administration’s task is to dominate energy and industrial world markets, luring foreign industrial enterprises to their country. The European Union is losing its economic advantages due to many factors, including their lack of foresight, if not outright folly.
Some countries – our Serbian friends, our Armenian colleagues – continue, by inertia, to declare their intention to join the European Union. I am confident that this “willingness” will soon come to an end.
In parallel, the European Union has transformed into an overtly aggressive, anti-Russia military bloc – an auxiliary to NATO. In my estimation, it will not endure long in this guise. Or, more precisely, it will not retain its original raison d’être. NATO, too – as I underscored in my remarks – is desperately seeking a pretext to justify its continued existence.
Following the terrorist attacks in New York in September 2001, Afghanistan emerged as the focus. That campaign concluded ignominiously. Subsequently, a movement was set in motion to revive Russophobic, anti-Soviet, and anti-Russia sentiments. I do not believe these efforts will persist for long, because the attempt to contrive new justifications for perpetuating their dominance – by projecting their influence into this region, into Southeast and Northeast Asia under the banner of containing China (where the Taiwan issue is being artificially magnified) – simply cannot continue indefinitely. It will, inevitably, run out of steam.
Once again, electorates will begin to question their leaders’ actions. After all, the sums involved are colossal when military spending is increased (as has already been decided) from 2 percent to 5 percent of the budget or GDP. Naturally, this affects directly the day-to-day standards of living in those countries.
Against these aggressive constructs – designed to impose their vision of the world upon others – we set fourth universal formats, based exclusively on the principle of general agreement and consensus. I reiterate: achieving consensus on all matters is indeed more arduous and significantly more time-consuming than simply acquiescing, as it were, with a “Yes, sir, General.” Yet, decisions forged through consensus are immeasurably more resilient than those delivered by diktat, as is the practice in both the European Union and NATO.
Question: Thank you very much, Mr Lavrov. The audience will not forgive me if we do not give them an opportunity to pose a question. There is already a sea of hands raised.
Sergey Lavrov: I myself would not forgive you for that. I am eager to listen.
Question: Being constantly, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, in such an aggressive environment, how do you find the time to write poetry? For instance, I am aware that you composed the MGIMO anthem, if I am not mistaken. How do you manage this, given your unrelenting schedule?
Sergey Lavrov: It is difficult to answer your question. Ultimately, it all comes from within. Something emerges in your mind which you feel compelled to commit to paper. Sometimes it is a memorandum devoted to some foreign policy issue. But we are all human. Occasionally, even in my youth – from the age of 16 – certain images would form that lent themselves to rhyme, and I have been engaged in this ever since.
Yes, I composed the MGIMO anthem – both the lyrics and the melody. Although I do not know musical notation, I simply sang the anthem, and subsequently it was performed. Now, it is played at MGIMO every first of September. That is a source of pride for me, there is no reason to conceal it.
Question: You endeavour to keep abreast of contemporary authors, yet you always return to the classics. Could you suggest, or advise, on the best way to come to know the world and the human being within it?
Sergey Lavrov: That is, indeed, an existential question. Every individual is unique. Good people are shaped in the most varied circumstances and environments. If you have the sense that you have come into this world by good fortune, that life is a gift from God, that others in this world are just like you – or, if you prefer, chosen – who have appeared in the world and been granted this greatest gift, the gift of life on Earth, and you grasp that you all possess equal rights, then I believe that is already a sound and sufficient foundation for a person to become balanced and positive.
As for upbringing, it begins in the family, from the cradle. Children perceive, even as crawlers, what is said by their parents and by those who visit their home (their friends). Then come nursery and school.
We have held extensive debates on how to reform and modernise the upbringing programme in pre-school institutions, schools, and universities. There were experiments which, to a large extent, mirrored our vacillations towards Western standards. As though it were self-evident that nothing could surpass the Bologna Process. Now, we are, in fact, returning to the finest traditions of the Soviet education system. I do not idealise it. I myself studied (why conceal it) in fits and starts. At certain parties in the senior years, we would poke fun at some of the Soviet school’s traditions. Those who attended educational institutions in those days will doubtless understand what I mean.
Yet the core of the programme, I believe, was entirely correct and essential for developing in a person the ability to absorb information and art, and to draw their own conclusions – to discern what one agrees or disagrees with.
I am genuinely pleased that now, as part of ongoing reforms of secondary and higher education, we are returning to these principles and traditions, wholly unconnected to Soviet or any other ideology, which have demonstrated their enduring value.
Question: Mr Lavrov, could you specify the title of a book and the author? Where should one begin? Which book should one read?
Sergey Lavrov: You see, everyone has their own preferences. I do not wish to slight any of the authors of the multitude of brilliant books, novels, novellas, and short stories.
Our classics – Anton Chekhov, Fyodor Dostoevsky, Alexander Pushkin, and Nikolai Gogol – feature in the school curriculum. I believe it is most important, at the very least, to take the school curriculum seriously. Guide your children along this path and help them comprehend literature, especially when some works seem rather difficult.
To prescribe, “read this book and not that one” – I cannot do that. I do not wish to offend anyone, nor do I wish to diminish the wealth of our literature and art.
Question: When I listen to you, I wonder where one can learn to speak like you. What a huge number of books you have read! You speak so well that I have forgotten the questions I wanted to ask, because it’s so interesting to listen to you. I am telling you this in all sincerity, and I’m sure the audience will agree with me, right? I am completely honest.
Sergey Lavrov: Actually, I am primarily grateful for this to my mom. I think mothers play the definitive role in shaping us as human beings.
Question: I know that you speak English, French and Singhalese. What language should be studied today?
Sergey Lavrov: It all depends. Many are studying Chinese now. The children of many of my friends signed up for Chinese.
When I enrolled at MGIMO University, I thought I spoke fluent English, which was confirmed during the entrance exams. We were asked what languages we would like to learn. We had to choose two language, one basic and the other auxiliary. I asked for French and Arabic. But I was assigned to study English and Singhalese, which is spoken only on the island of Sri Lanka. It was known as Ceylon back then. It had a population of 10 million, and 25 percent of them spoke a different language, Tamil. Anyway, I was assigned to study English and took up French as my third foreign language.
I believe that English will maintain its dominant influence in international contacts. Yes, it is a vestige of the colonial era, but it is also a useful means of communication. English is a state language in India, which is populated by dozens if not hundreds of ethnic groups. There are a great many languages apart from Hindi there, so a common language is absolutely essential there.
French is another vestige of the colonial era. But many African countries, which comprise many tribes, also need a unifying means of communication.
But Russian, which is a language of interethnic communication in our country and several other countries (we have recently been in Kyrgyzstan, where Russian is an official language), is a great asset of our state. Our country and our statehood have an imperial background, yet the ethnic groups living in the Russian Federation (and the Soviet Union in the past) have never – never – been treated as colonial provinces.
You know what I just thought of? I hope former US President Joe Biden will forgive me. When he met with President Putin in Geneva in June 2021 – the meeting was also attended by Secretary of State Antony Blinken and yours truly – he had notes and discussion materials in front of him, but he started speaking without even glancing at them. Mr President, he said, I would like to say outright that the United States is not against Russia. The US is no better than Russia, and Russia is no better than the US. They are just different. We have some common things in our history, like the fight against Nazism (I might say a few words about this later), but we are different.
He said that the Americans are a nation of migrants, many of them with a criminal past, who fled from Europe and settled in America. The gold rush. Indians in their reservations. But the Russians, he said, are a nation that has taken deep root in the land where it is now, and has spread its statehood to neighbouring territories.
He said that migrants came to America from all over the world, including slaves brought from Africa, who were granted citizenship and independence at some stage. People from different countries and continents were thrown in that “melting pot,” he said, where they are “melted down” and from which they emerged with the inscription “human rights” written on their foreheads. He went on to say that the Russian Empire emerged through spreading its influence on neighbouring territories. And we didn’t throw other nations into “melting pots.” We preserved their languages, culture, traditions and religions. That is how our multinational people emerged.
Joe Biden later said that this is a great achievement in terms of the preservation of culture and identity, but it is extremely difficult to govern such a multifaceted state and keep it united, especially since Russia is a nuclear power. Therefore, Joe Biden said, I wish good health to President Putin, for he is a man who can do this. He made it clear that he did not want anything bad to happen that would destabilise Russia, contrary to what some people claim.
That is what he said. He spoke without notes. I think that he is an experienced politician. There are so many things you could criticise him for. But he knew and understood, at least at the end of his career, the importance of respecting Russia’s interests. I think that’s right.
You know, I am on the list of top five candidates of the United Russia party. As the election day is approaching, we see frantic attempts to undermine our society. We can see this, and the West makes no secret of this. Apart from the associations of Russian émigrés, who fled to the West and have decided to join political anti-Russia activities, attempts have been made to stage various provocations through Western diplomats in Russia. We are aware of this. Our intelligence services are working on this.
They [the West] spare no effort to spark public discontent. I am fully aware of this. I communicate with a great number of people, and not only with my official colleagues but also with my friends, and also with you, right now.
Among the methods used to undermine our stability, the West is openly encouraging terrorist acts by the Kiev regime. In July of this year, on the sidelines of the NATO summit in Türkiye, US Secretary of State Marco Rubio stated that the United States understood the significance of strikes deep into Russian territory – because, he said, they bring Russia closer to the negotiating table. I met with him a month after that statement, on the sidelines of ASEAN events in the Philippines, and asked him how they could so openly encourage terrorism. His reply was that they wanted negotiations to begin sooner.
But negotiations actually began a year ago – in Alaska. And they ended with the proposals put forward by the Americans... We have always noted the differences in outlook between President Donald Trump and his administration and their European counterparts. The Europeans keep insisting that Russia is the aggressor, and that it should be stripped of its newly incorporated territories. The Americans, by contrast (as soon as Donald Trump returned to the White House) based their initiatives on the realities on the ground. I have already mentioned that Donald Trump, even when he was running for a second term, categorically ruled out Ukraine’s membership in NATO.
For us, however, realities on the ground do not simply mean territories, as Europe claims. For us, realities are not merely the presence of our troops there, defending the choice made by the people in referendums. For us, realities are the people’s choice itself, enshrined in our Constitution.
Ahead of the Alaska meeting, we were presented with proposals. President Vladimir Putin then went to Alaska, met with President Donald Trump, and said he accepted the Americans’ proposals. Is that not an understanding? Is that not a deal? In Russia, this has been our custom since times immemorial – a handshake and a merchant’s word. That is it – a deal. And NATO promised Mikhail Gorbachev that the alliance would not expand eastward. When expansion began, we reminded them of that promise. But they said the promises were made verbally, not on paper. Then, in 1999, at the OSCE summit, they laid it down “on paper” – security is indivisible, no country can strengthen its security at the expense of another, no entity in this entire space can claim dominance. It was written down at the highest level, signed. And yet the expansion continues.
We said: fine, you gave President Gorbachev your word verbally. But here you signed off. They replied that it was a political declaration, not a legally binding document. For us, it is in our national character – we shake hands and that is a deal. Sacred. While for them, it can all be crossed out.
The incident with the drone that crashed in Leipzig has already been mentioned. The Germans claim it was a Russian drone. They don’t even bother to think twice.
We still cannot get a clear answer to numerous cases that have been used as a pretext for new anti‑Russia campaigns and fresh sanctions.
For example, we still have not been able to obtain the results of the tests performed on Alexey Navalny at the Bundeswehr hospital in the autumn of 2020. When he collapsed in Omsk, he was immediately airlifted to Germany by a German medical evacuation team. We waived all the protocols that normally apply in such situations – just so he could have a chance, as they saw it, to save his life. They brought him to Germany. The civilian clinic’s tests revealed nothing. But the Bundeswehr hospital allegedly found traces of Novichok – a chemical agent. We asked for those test results – a natural request, given that we were being accused. They told us the results would be handed over to the OPCW. Now, they claim, it is their property. We contacted that organisation – of which we are founding members – and asked the Director-General to show us the results. He refused, citing the Germans’ instructions not to show them to anyone. We are still waiting for those results.
And finally, something I have already made a very pressing issue in my contacts, including in the UN. In April 2022, during negotiations in Istanbul, the Ukrainians put a document on the table, which we accepted as the basis for an agreement to end the conflict. President of Russia Vladimir Putin has repeatedly mentioned this document. We initialled the paper proposed by the Ukrainians. After that, then British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and other Western figures forbade the Ukrainians from signing it. They told them to keep fighting.
While this process was underway in Istanbul and a potential agreement was being considered, it was suddenly announced that dozens of bodies, allegedly tortured by Russian troops, had been discovered in the Kiev suburb of Bucha. Meanwhile, during those same days, when the Istanbul agreements were being discussed, French President Emmanuel Macron called Russian President Vladimir Putin and said that the process was going well and that there was a chance of reaching a settlement. He asked to make a goodwill gesture and withdraw from Kiev. We withdrew, including from Bucha.
The mayor of this town appeared on every television screen, declaring that the Ukrainians had regained control of Bucha and were now in there. Another two days passed. Suddenly, BBC correspondents broadcast a report from Bucha showing corpses neatly laid out along the main street, on both sides of the roadway. Everyone’s hands were bound, everyone was wearing clean clothes, despite dirt everywhere. And then they said that was done by Russians, that they had discovered atrocities, and so on. A new package of sanctions was imposed. Unlike other similar stories, there were no signals from relatives. Usually, relatives come forward and demand… but nothing happened at all.
We asked the UN to help us obtain a list of the people whose bodies had been shown by the BBC. It will soon be five years since we first asked. To the UN’s shame, Secretary-General Antonio Guterres replies that they investigated something and have information, but it is somehow confidential because the relatives do not really want it disclosed… We ask: where are the relatives? Usually, relatives are the loudest voices demanding justice.
We will not leave this matter alone, especially since Europeans continue to visit Ukraine. Incidentally, I do not know why we allow them to engage in this kind of political tourism. When they come, representatives of the Kiev regime always take them to Bucha. There, they pay their respects to these so-called victims.
In a week or two, I will go to New York for the UN General Assembly, and I will raise this issue with Antonio Guterres again. Moreover, at every session of the UN General Assembly, I raise this issue at my news conferences.
There is also the UN Correspondents Association, which brings together around 70 representatives from various media outlets. I have already appealed to them, telling them that there is such a thing as journalistic pride: you always want to conduct investigative reporting, whether there is a reason for it or not. Take Bucha, for example. They showed dozens of corpses. The episode resonated. The BBC broadcast it around the world. Sanctions were imposed, hostilities by Ukraine intensified, weapons were pumped into the Kiev regime, with consequences that are still being felt. Where is your journalistic and professional pride? Unlike other stories, there is a deathly silence on this one. Clearly, there is a reason behind all this.
Question: Mr Lavrov, we have to let you go, although we really do not want to. We are always delighted to have you with us. Please come and speak at the Znanie Society lecture hall. You are an incredible speaker. Thank you very much.
Sergey Lavrov: In conclusion, I would like to say what I consider most important. This concerns the atrocities committed by the Kiev regime, including attacks on marketplaces, oil refineries, and other infrastructure facilities that provide essential services and make everyday life possible for society and ordinary citizens. This is what they are seeking to disrupt. The day before yesterday, I believe, Vladimir Zelensky said that civil aviation in Russia should stop operating because it has no place in areas where Ukrainian combat drones are flying. I will refrain from characterising this person. But the expectation that society will become destabilised and rise up in protest is being stated openly.
I quoted US Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who said that the Ukrainians should be allowed to use their long-range weapons to strike deep inside Russia, which would make Russia more accommodating at the negotiating table. We were accommodating in the negotiations. We agreed to what was proposed in Alaska. It was the Americans who backed away from their own proposal.
But what does the West want? They no longer talk about inflicting a “strategic defeat” on Russia as often as they once did. Instead, they say that the fighting along the line of contact must be stopped immediately in order to save lives. And then – as they also openly declare – the West, NATO, and the European Union will deploy “stabilisation forces” to the remaining Ukrainian territory and guarantee the security of Ukraine in its new form, while refusing to recognise that the Russians have taken Donbass, Novorossiya, and Crimea.
This means only one thing. They want to preserve and perpetuate the Nazi regime that has banned the Russian language in all spheres of public life. Let me note in passing that there is not a single country where a language is banned, let alone one of the official languages of the United Nations. In Israel, people can speak Arabic and Farsi; in Iran and all Arab countries, they can speak Hebrew. Different languages can be spoken everywhere. But here, that is simply not the case. They want to perpetuate this anti-Russia, Nazi regime.
It is no coincidence that denazification and demilitarisation are among the goals set out by President Vladimir Putin. Yet they want to preserve this source of tension indefinitely.
This is unacceptable in practical terms because it would create a direct and tangible NATO threat on our borders. They are already saying that Ukraine will not be admitted to the alliance but will be given the same security guarantees as NATO members. So, they want to freeze the conflict rather than resolve it, while preserving the threat on our borders. There is also another, non-material dimension to this issue. If we were to accept this on the grounds that our people want a more comfortable life – agreeing to let this regime remain in place, ceasing hostilities, and effectively giving the green light to the revival of Nazism in the literal sense, in the form of a quasi-state entirely dependent on the West while openly adhering to Nazi ideology – we would be betraying our ancestors who defeated Nazism in 1945.
I do not believe our people are prepared for that. As a nation, we are accustomed to sacrificing material comforts for the sake of preserving the memory and legacy passed down to us by heroes throughout the centuries-long history of the Russian state.